Joe Claussell interview

We speak to the Body & Soul DJ in New York

DJ Joe ’Joaquin’ Claussell plays The End this weekend for the first time. Joe’s involvement and love for soulful music goes back over 20 years, after he discovered New York’s Paradise Garage club in the 1980s. He ran Dance Tracks, the legendary record store in East Village, Manhattan that he initially hung out at, then eventually owned; and along with Francois K and Danny Krivit, ran the seminal Body & Soul parties. He headlines Need 2 Soul, in many ways the UK equivalent of these parties, this Saturday. Charlie Hope chatted to Joe about throwing those Body & Soul parties, DJs with egos, and why music is the answer

Endclub: Hi Joe, how are you?

Joe Claussell: I’m cool, I’m cool, just came back from touring Asia, a little jetlagged. Actually a lot jetlagged. I played in Japan.

Nice, where did you play?

Actually, I played a Sumo Wrestling party.

Something a bit different then! And how’s New York right now, are you looking forward to Christmas?

I am, I am.

And how’s the vibe over there in New York since Obama got in, has the mood subsided or are people still buzzing?

Oh people are still buzzing about it, but there’s a lot of work still to do.

Of course, the hard work starts here. So let go back to the beginning. I read that you attended Larry Levan’s legendary Paradise Garage. How did you first hear about the parties?

Not at the beginning, I started going in the late 1980’s, it wasn’t the heyday of the Paradise Garage, it was years after, after Larry, but I got to appreciate this world. Friends were always telling me about the Garage for years before I went. For years it was “come to this party, come to this party”, I was “man I don’t know” and then I went, and it blew me away

I guess you’d never seen anything like it before…

Never seen anything like it, never seen anything like it. And the music, oh the music. I come from a rich background of lots of different music, but had never heard anything like this.

You come from a big family, lots of brothers, right? Did they introduce you to a lot of different music?

Yeah exactly. And so I would go to a lot of other places, like the Mud Club in New York City, where they played rock. I needed to feed myself with a lot of different music. But man, The Garage had the biggest impact on me, definitely.

So what sort of music were you listening to before those parties?

Well a real range. I had seven brothers, there was one I call the soul boy, Jackie, and he never went there, but he played a lot of the stuff I heard at The Garage. That’s where I heard a lot of music, he wasn’t DJing, just playing records and jamming at home. That’s how I got introduced to lots of artists, like Francois K, through those records. I used to read the credits on the sleeves. And I used to go to other clubs, at the same time, but mainly listen to music at home. And equally I was into rock, Jimmy Hendrix, Black Sabbath, and I preferred it to The Garage music. And that was because my other brother, Larry, was into all that - he was in a rock band at the time. He was the drummer and had a drum kit, and they used to practice in our basement, so that music was more powerful to me then. It had more impact on me at the time. So that was it, a real diverse range of music. But the biggest impact on me was my mother. She influenced me massively. She loves, loves music… to the point that my record label, the logo, is actually my mother holding a record.

Oh really, what did she listen to?

She listened to a whole range, salsa, Afro Cuban, African music to Elvis Presley, you name it, everything. And so I was really lucky to grow up with this musical soup….

It sounds amazing. When we think back to times like the Paradise Garage, and people like Larry Levan, it really sounds like a golden era - like a rawer time for music and parties, more passion, a sense of brotherhood, no one in it for the money. It still seems true today of soulful and gospel house as underground music, that people still have that raw passion for it. Why do you think that is?

I agree totally. Back in the day, it was about love and music. There was an immense amount of clubs on at that time, and so many different parties and music, but back then everyone wanted to share their music. They loved it, in the disco era, and the Garage era you had people like Tee Scott, Larry Paterson, Richie Rivera, Walter Gibbons and Francois K… they would go to each others’ clubs and give each other music, and support each others’ music. They just wanted to share, there were no egos, and that was a beautiful time. That was one of the reasons the club scene was so healthy back then. Now, unfortunately, it’s all about ‘me’, about trying to be ‘The Man’ or the woman, whatever, it’s forgetting what the true essence that this is all about. It’s about the music, the people who listen to it, love and sharing. No divas, not putting DJs up on a pedestal. I believe a DJ should be a conduit, which I consider myself, letting the music flow through him, the energy of the music, the universe, whatever. A lot of that is missing these days, and it reflects a time right now where I believe people are completely lost, personally, politically, we lost the point somewhere. And people no longer have that powerful belief or energy that music can give us, the club has lost that. Back in the day, it was like a chapel, like a temple. And that’s missing, people have lost faith with themselves, and musically. And that comes from, I believe, not having the religious aspect of music being preached. I mean preached not in a way that is force fed, but organic. Our role as a DJ used to be as a conduit. Don’t look to me as someone to look up to or admire, but look to me as almost like a ghostlike figure, you are feeling and hearing the music, the energy through me.

Like you’re passing the music through you to the crowd…

Exactly.

So what do you think of the New York scene today? How hass it changed from back then, to today and after Mayor Giuliani? It seems that was the trigger for a lot of New York nightlife changing as he wanted to clean up the act. People say it’s safer now but a bit soulless…

It’s very simple. Giuliani don’t like unity in terms of people. They were a very racist outfit. As much as they don’t like to talk about it, there it is. It’s an issue. They were extremely racist. And I think they saw the power underground music can give people, the power it has to change people, give them beliefs. And that’s why when they started to clean up the city, they started first with the clubs. It’s like they came to power and were trying to separate people. Because clubs and music bring people together. I’m sure they went to the clubs and saw how it touched people; blacks, whites, gays, all dancing together? What’s going on here? We can’t have this. That’s a powerful thing and they wanted to stop it.

And I guess authorities wouldn’t have understood it, the importance to people of this movement.

You know, it’s about power. It’s about divide and conquer, like politics is the world over. The way to control people is to separate people, and make them fearful. It’s like a war. And that’s why Giuliani came down so hard on the clubs, they feared the blacks, whites, gay, Hispanic, all dancing together. They had their own agenda. The problem though is not Giuliani, its why did we give up so easily? Why did we just accept everything that was given to us? Why didn’t we fight back? A lot of times, we don’t know the power we have. And people coming together is the true power of music. We’ve abused music. You can use music to look cool, to make money off it, or pick up girls, or guys, to fill a void in your self esteem, not loving yourself. Just like people might go buy a Mercedes, or jewels that they can’t afford to fill that void in them. People are lost, and confused, and I believe it comes down to education in a nutshell. In America, we were brought up not to learn about anything except this superpower, and we’re a very divided place. And I believe the beauty in music is that we have within our grasp the key to eliminate and abolish all that’s going on around us. Like racism, the separation, if we could just learn to realize the importance of being together and how powerful that could be, we could overcome it. Obama getting in is a very small example of that. And if we could re-align ourselves to respect music and use it for good, and not abuse it… well. Music has the power to unite us in a very positive way…

Have you spent much time in the UK? What do you think of the scene here?

To be totally honest, I haven’t spent much time there over the years. I do go there sometimes. But really, there’s the same problems everywhere, the UK, US. For example there are a lot of people who go out and find refuge in the music, but only by taking drugs. They take a whole bunch of drugs, and they think that that’s it, they get off their heads and that’s why they enjoy themselves. But they have it wrong, the true essence of soul, it’s on the dancefloor with the music. And that’s why people find it harder to put on and fill parties today, they’ve forgotten about the real reason, the only reason there should be; the music.

Deep and soulful house music has always had these waves of popularity, and at times different genres or splinters of music will be popular - for a few years in the UK people were into a really minimal sound, but the last year has seen deep and melodic house rise again. Is it the same in New York, or is there more loyalty to the soulful sound?

Just like I believe that vinyl will never truly die, I believe that soul music ain’t going anywhere. It’s never going to go away. It’s too powerful, more than any DJ, more than any genre. Listen, music is music to me. If someone’s into minimal, that’s cool, I don’t put any music down. But I know that where I come from, music is powerful. You can change names but you cannot dilute. Call it some different name for your own agenda, but real music is always gonna come back. So you can have these offsprings, whatever, but they don’t hold…and people realize that, and they always come back to what’s real. And when it comes to house music, the music that was played at The Garage, when you have these vocals, and it feels like they’re singing to you, those tones, nothing can beat it in my opinion. And so that’s a good point, that parties true to the music stay true.

Need 2 Soul, who you are playing for here next week, has always stayed true to their love of soulful music. Are there any parties over there in New York you really like at the moment?

And that’s why I really love working with Alex. Need 2 Soul is one of the parties that has stayed true. When you ask me about New York though, I don’t know, I don’t know. If I look back to parties like David Mancuso’s Loft, or Larry’s Garage, what they were about, they had a proprietor, a person who thought about it, who had a passion for it, that I don’t think exists anywhere. They had a passion, but more importantly, or equally importantly, they had a humbleness about what they were doing, although they understood the importance and the power of throwing this party, or whatever you want to call it. And they started with love “wow, I want to start this party, I want to bring people together”, and what happened, it came from the soul, from the heart. Which is the same with my art. If it’s from the soul, it will be unique, but when people want a part of it, money is naturally going to be made from it. And that’s what missing from parties today. And that’s why I love Alex, he’s one of the few people who has it. It’s about the need to soul! He has this party, and he just wants people to come and dance, and that’s what is missing.

You can go to parties, here, there, globally. New York the parties are jamming! Anyone can play beautiful music, but what I question is the foundations. Where is this thing going? What is the goal? The reason behind it? And the Loft and the Garage, that’s what they had. Purpose.

Do you miss doing Body & Soul for that reason? Because you, Francois K, and Danny Krivit, you ran it to your philosophy. Or did you think it was the right time to end it?

I think that it ended right. Again, I wouldn’t have been involved with Body & Soul if I hadn’t seen that fire, that passion. That very essence of wanting to do it for the right reasons. First of all, they wanted me involved but I wasn’t sure. FK (Francois K) talked to me. I owned Dance Tracks and so I was kind of content just playing music there. All I would hear from the DJs coming into the store was their egos “oh, I’m gonna rock this party, or that party” nothing about their love for the music, you know what I mean? And FK wanted me to do Body & Soul before he even started it, but I was like, no, no, I was happy playing at the store. Even though I had heard of FK, I knew who he was, from my brother’s records. And I was a huge, huge fan – he’s one of the reasons I do this today, no doubt. I admired the artistry, but I had to say no to this guy! Because if it was like the DJs coming into my store, I didn’t want to be part of it! And he kept on asking me, and I kept saying no, and then he said “come play at Larry Levan’s birthday party, I want you to be a part of it”. So that one I accepted, a sort of half assed yes, but I said I’d do it. And we talked about the philosophy or whatever, and that was it. I was in. And a few months later, there wasn’t really that many people coming, and we talked again about the philosophy, of just having this party, we just play music and anyone, anyone could join in. It wasn’t about money. And this is a good example of it being real, as people started to come, one by one they would come in, and feel “we’re home”. They thought wow, there’s no host, no ego, and it went from a party with maybe two or three people, to a year and half later, over 2000 people, every single Sunday, people from all over the world, you know what I mean? They’d come in, think wow, and just feel at home.

It gives you goosebumps thinking about it!

And that’s what I’m talking about! From the heart and the soul, you’re not forcing people, if they feel it, dig it on their own, they’re gonna come and they’re going to enjoy. And good things can happen from it, and that’s exactly my point. But to get back to your question… and I’m carrying on a bit, sorry….

Please do!

…yes I think Body & Soul ended at the right time. But I sure wish that we would do it again. Because, it had the right energy you know? And I think that parties like that are needed. It was rare. Look, the people are first. My philosophy… the people made it. Even when I go out today, I’m one of the most nervous DJs! Because my job is to make people happy. And for many other different reasons we create this party together! I’m not doing it, it’s us together. If they don’t have the energy, what kind of a party are we going to have?

So I’ve got to ask about your gig at The End, have you ever been to the club?

I think so… but I can’t recall…

The main DJ booth is an island in the middle of the main room, which DJs either love or hate, because you are in the middle of a sea or people, part of the crowd. You’re with the people instead of high up on a pedestal…

In the middle of the dancefloor? Is that where the booth is?

Yeah, so you are one with the crowd and really part of the night.

One with the crowd…. I love that. Definitely, to be one with the crowd.

So are you looking forward to the gig?

I am, I am. And I’m glad you brought that up, about being one of the crowd, I’ll do a good job because that’s where I want to be. The DJ booth is always up in the air, and I hate that.

Thanks so much for talking to us! It’s been a pleasure chatting with you, and we’ll see you at Need 2 Soul this Saturday night!.

You will. And thanks, it was nice talking to you.

Published: 9/12/2008